Sunday, March 25, 2018

Hypocrisy, Sunday Sermon IV.

 These are not really sermons in case someone new stumbles upon this blog, these are just thoughts and arguments that I have with myself. I don't have the moral authority to lecture anyone about almost anything. Just wanted to put that out there.

 This week I was reading about a male escort who apparently has a list of priests that he has been servicing. He is saying that he will release the names, not as an attack on the church but as a way to root out the hidden rot in the hierarchy. I would normally be totally against outing someone but in this case I can see his point.

 I remember when I finished (Catholic) high school in the city, a girl there told a teacher that her cousin was going through to be a priest. He said to her that most of the young men who were either becoming priests or were priests in his house, were having sex with each other. I was disgusted with her, I couldn't figure out why she would say such a filthy thing. After that I saw her as trash even though she was from a wealthy family. Years later I would begin to realize that she was probably telling the truth.

 I wouldn't want the lifestyle of a priest, that's why I would never become one, so my empathy begins to run out if someone also doesn't want that lifestyle and yet enters into the priesthood. I would have some understanding for the older generations or men from third world countries but most men entering now have just as much knowledge as I do. To me it's bad enough that they are hooking up with each other but I think there is something a little extra sick about being a parish priest and being on a first name basis with the local male escorts!

 One of my sore points with the church was that it ignored all the scandals regarding abuse and even tried to aid the abusers. Plus there has been other scandals that have been hushed up. However when the government went to bring gay marriage into law in Canada, suddenly the church for the first time in history became politically active. They organized against gay marriage and tried to stop it. Churches sent home petitions, I remember my parents bringing some home and asked if I would take some. I took all of them, (muahaha).

 The hypocrisy is unbelievable, sex between two males is only disgusting when they are both adults in a committed, loving relationship? Is that the church's message? This is why I don't have a lot of empathy for the men on that list, it's one thing to be confused, it's another to support an organization that actively discriminates against the LGBTQ community. They could be a member of a church that is positive towards the LGBTQ community and build on that religion as being an inclusive one. It's as ridiculous as a person saying they are against discrimination but at the same time are a leader in a white supremacist group.


Ur-spo said...

I too have mixed feelings about outing folks but if these folks are actively working to hurt the folks they are publicly condemning then so be it. Once again we get a lesson we should never do anything we are ashamed to have known in public.

Old Lurker said...

Welp. So much for my plans to blog about becoming a priest.

I have no problems with mutually consenting priests having sex with each other, or with escorts either. (Didn't Jesus hang out with prostitutes and other downtrodden people?) I have a lot of problems with them engaging in nonconsensual sex with minors. I have a huge problem with the church shuffling problematic priests from parish to parish.

I have some problems with the hypocrisy and the closets. But I think those closet doors will open.

The funny thing is that there have been Catholic thinkers and practitioners who have admitted they had homosexual desires but are still held in esteem by many Catholics. Henri Nouwen comes to mind here. Richard Coles is Church of England, not Catholic, but he is in much the same mold (and he was in the Communards!)

Sooo-this-is-me said...

Dr Spo, yes no one is perfect but going to a male prostitute and then trying to teach morality, that just leaves the door open for trouble.

Sooo-this-is-me said...

Mr Lurker, yes Jesus hung around prostitutes but to give them self worth.... not to find out how much they are worth! Big difference lol! Why would you take a vow of chastity when you had no intention of keeping it. There are many other denominations that would accept homosexual and bisexual ministers.

Old Lurker said...

I can think of a reason to take a vow of chastity when you have no intention of keeping it: if you don't take it you don't get to be a priest, and there are a bunch of young sexually-confused men who feel a calling to the priesthood for all the other things the job involves (sermonizing? getting into costume? candles and incense? comforting people and being sensitive to their problems? For the right person, those are all compelling) and are willing to take the bad with the good.

A lot of jobs come with stupid rules that you mumble agreement with just to get to the other stuff. Blogger has an obnoxious terms of service, but you agreed with it to get a blog. Stores have surveillance cameras in them, but you probably go shopping. Porn sites insist that their patrons be over 18 to enter them, but I bet you click through anyways. I think vows of celibacy are similar.

Why not just join another denomination? Because Catholics are Catholic, and if you were Catholic you would understand that it (despite its flaws) is the best religion. Why would you step down and be Anglican or Episcopalian or something even lower rate? Most people who grow up in a particular faith tradition grow tied to that faith tradition and see it as true.

Anonymous said...

I don't feel sorry the priests. The should be outed. As a former Catholic, I have nothing but contempt for the Catholic Church.

Sooo-this-is-me said...

Mr Lurker, you're just being disagreeable to be disagreeable. I'll have whatever you're having!

Sooo-this-is-me said...

RJ, it is a bit much, it's like everyone wants to go around pretending that everything is the way they wish it was instead of admitting the way it actually is.

Old Lurker said...

I am about 3/4 serious, actually.

I am serious that a vow of celibacy is the price one pays to be a priest, but that people are willing to make that vow to get the other priestly advantages. Celibacy is not the central focus of being a priest.

I am serious that the rest of us make such compromises as well. EULAs are an excellent example of this.

Although I expressed it in a non-serious way, I am serious that people tend to be loyal to the religious denominations they were raised in. Even atheists oppose the particular god of their own church. Few of us actually shop around with conviction.

I am not serious about you being under 18 or about you not being catholic.

Mike said...

Yesterday I resisted posting anything to this thread, for fear of coming off as anti-Catholic. The church has done much worse than encouraging a supply of hypocritical priests. I'd start with the doctrine of original sin, the concept hell,....

Instead I'd like to muse over how the priestly class started in the first place. I imagine the pre-historic campfire created sometime after the apes crawled out of the trees and before Good Books were envisioned.

"Everyone has to get their quota of wooly mammoths, this is damn hard work. I know, why not tell the bigger guys I have a special power, a special vision of something only I can see. Then ask them to pay me for my services so I don't have to go out and spear any wooly mammoths. Yeah yeah, that's the ticket."

I'm pretty sure that's how it all started. And how it continues.